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Writer's pictureCynthia Toh Xin Ru

Panel Discussion: Nurturing Neurodiverse Talent In The Workplace

Updated: Apr 15, 2021



On 11 Feb 2021, I attended an online panel discussion organised by General Assembly Singapore and Neurodiversity Media. The event was titled ‘Diversity in Tech: Nurturing Neurodiverse Talent in the Workplace’. The session brought together speakers from Australia and Singapore to discuss how organisations can become more inclusive in hiring and nurturing neurodiverse talent.


Cheryl Gledhill is the Director of Product at Zip Co. She co-founded a startup, Jobmatcher.ai, an inclusive HR tech solution that helps to reduce bias towards the neurodivergent throughout the job recruitment process.


Siobhan Lamb is the Principal of Embrace Difference. She is a neurodivergent educator, speaker, writer and advocate. Her husband, three children and herself are all neurodivergent with a mix of Autism, ADHD, giftedness, Dyslexia and Dysgraphia. She has a history of working in the education industry for over 20 years in Special Education, Science, and Maths in both Australia and Singapore. Together with another neurodivergent teacher, she has begun an Educational Consultancy business in Sydney which conducts PD at schools, supports parents at school meetings, coaches parents to become more successful advocates for their children, and work with neurodivergent children to help build their self-awareness and self-advocacy skills through a strength-based talent development model.


Wesley Loh is the Co-Founder of WhatsApp Autism Community Singapore. He was diagnosed with Autism / Asperger’s Syndrome at age 18. Coming into contact with the Singapore autism community in 2017, Wesley has been an active autistic autism advocate since then, running a network of autism chat groups at WhatsApp Autism Community Singapore. He was a keynote speaker at the Life After Death Forum 2019, the first ever autistic-led forum in Singapore, and he also participated in the Asia Pacific Autism Conference 2019, an international autism conference hosted in Singapore for the first time. His most recent advocacy is advocating for equal access to insurance coverage and fair treatment by insurers.


Rachel Worsley is the Founder and CEO of Neurodiversity Media. She is autistic, ADHD and has dyspraxia. With a background in medical journalism and legal marketing, she started Neurodiversity Media to produce accessible information resources to equip neurodivergent people, their support network and employers with the knowledge to unleash potential at work.


What neurodiversity really means


Rachel began the session by defining some key terms. Neurodiversity is a concept by an Australian sociologist, Judy Singer. Neurodiversity is an inclusive term to describe the infinite variations in neurocognitive functioning in human minds regarding sociability, learning, attention, mood, and other mental functions. Someone can have any or a combination of the following conditions such as autism, ADHD, dyslexia, and dyspraxia. Instead of looking at them from a position of weaknesses or as medical conditions that have to be cured, they can actually bring particular strengths, especially in the workplace context that can be an advantage for employers.


The terms neurodiversity and neurodivergent are sometimes used interchangeably. However, neurodiversity is more often used to describe a collective group of people with different types of neurological conditions, such as a neurodiverse workplace made up of neurodivergent and neurotypical people. Neurodivergent is a catch-all term for conditions that are divergent from societal norms, whereas neurotypical is a term used to describe people with a brain that conforms to dominant mainstream societal standards.


The conditions of autism and ADHD are usually recognised as disabilities under disability discrimination laws, such as Australia's Equal Opportunity Act. However, the term neurodiversity is not explicitly included in disability discrimination laws, and more work needs to be done to help protect the rights of neurodivergent individuals, especially with regards to discrimination in the workplace.


Neurodiversity can be said to be the most inclusive diversity movement. It highlights how all our brains have the ability to contribute something of interest, and we need a diversity of minds in order to do the best work that we can.


How neurodivergents can make an impact in the workplace


Siobhan noted that neurodivergent individuals can have special skills. For instance, autistic people are good at concentrating and remembering large amounts of facts, as well as at repetitive tasks and technical skills. Dyslexics are creative out-of-the-box thinkers, while people with ADHD are energetic. Wesley agreed that the autistic brain can be wired to have specific skills, such as paying attention to small details that neurotypical people may miss. For example, when his company department was launching a new portal, he spotted when the workflow was not being followed.


Siobhan suggested that when an employer thinks about how to be inclusive and meet individual needs, the employer can leverage on the talents of all employees, including both neurodivergent and neurotypical employees. Neurodiversity refers to differences, and when people have different ways of thinking, it can bring about changes such as making new technologies. She drew parallels with how biodiversity is crucial to protect ecosystems against infectious diseases.


Wesley concurred that employers need to recognise that neurodiversity can be healthy and lead to creativity, giving the analogy of how many different notes are needed to make a beautiful piece of music. He also shared that the World Economic Forum has discussed how neurodiversity at work can benefit everyone, citing examples such as Microsoft and Dell. However, he noted that Singapore is still catching up, as some international tech companies that hire autistic employees overseas do not do so in Singapore, as is the case with SAP’s Autism at Work programme.


Cheryl observed that neurotypical individuals tend to follow the crowd, unlike autistic people who are not swayed by common social norms. Since neurodivergent individuals think in different ways, including them in the team can encourage the team to consider different perspectives. She highlighted the importance of having many employees with different lived experiences at the workplace, as the team would otherwise risk missing something obvious to a large part of the population. For example, most product managers in Silicon Valley are young White men who have never lived with abuse and therefore do not realise that there might be abuse on their platforms.


Getting educated and changing mindsets


Cheryl noted that abled individuals are often afraid of the word 'disability'. For example, Nike recently released a new range of shoes specifically targeted at disabled individuals, but did not mention the word 'disability' as society treats it like a dirty word. She urged companies to stop seeing disability as a negative thing and be comfortable calling it what it is in order to effectively broaden their inclusive culture.


Cheryl also shared that the pathway for neurodivergent individuals to seek successful employment requires many things to be right - recruiting, interviewing, getting the job, finding accommodations that work, and changing the company culture. Nevertheless, she came to realise the importance of starting small with baby steps. Instead of trying to get all the steps right, she could focus on helping to solve one piece of the problem. She urged companies to try to change the company culture by first building awareness within the team that people talk and behave in different ways. For instance, having Friday night drinks with colleagues or other socialising events might be viewed as a job perk for neurotypical employees, but might be viewed as a nightmare for neurodivergent employees. She also advised employers to implement a buddy system, providing each new employee with a safe person that is not the direct boss, who can help with navigating the workplace.


Wesley emphasised that employers have to change their mindsets, building neurodiversity and inclusion into the culture, rather than just viewing it as a burdensome checkbox exercise. Specifically, he recommended educating neurotypical individuals on autistic individuals’ strengths and how to communicate with autistic individuals, with the caveat that neurotypical individuals have to be open to learning. He observed that some neurotypical individuals avoid autistic individuals because they lack knowledge and fear offending autistics.


Rachel hypothesised that the problem boils down to two possibile reasons. Firstly, there is the so-called 'too hard' basket syndrome, in which employers are too scared to make mistakes and hence do not want to get started. Secondly, employers might be overwhelmed and not know where to start. As such, Neurodiversity Media attempts to educate employers by providing a Resource Library which can be accessed by joining as a free member. Some of the resources include:

Reducing biases and improving the hiring process


Cheryl shared that her previous startup, Jobmatcher.ai, looked at how bias in job ads made neurodivergent individuals self-select themselves out of jobs. Neurodivergent individuals often thought that the job was not right for them, when the problem was the way job ads were written. As such, her platform rewrote job ads in plain English without any jargon, creating the set of rules based on about 3,000 job ads they went through. They found that 77% of people – not just neurodivergent but also neurotypical individuals – preferred the plain text job ads. This underscored the point that when employers design for inclusivity, they are not just providing a special accommodation that only benefits neurodivergent individuals, but instead making the experience better for all employees. An audience member mentioned that there is a company in the United States, Textio, which attempts to do similar work removing gender bias from job ads.


Siobhan noted that discrimination often happens even before the job interview process. Due to negative stereotypes, employers might not bring neurodivergent candidates for job interviews if they know the candidates are neurodivergent, or might find it hard to change their preconceived notions about what neurodivergence looks like. She advised neurodivergent individuals that if they feel the need to lie or stretch the truth at a job interview, then that workplace is not suitable for them.


Wesley agreed about the importance of finding a person-environment fit, but acknowledged the difficulty of doing so. He gave a personal anecdote about the bias he faced when he first went for job interviews after graduation. In addition to struggling with body language and eye contact during the job interviews, he had difficulty knowing how and when to disclose his autism diagnosis at the job interviews. He was afraid of how employers would react and whether it would jeopardise his chances. This was especially because he recognised that there was still a stigma against neurodivergent individuals in Asian cultures. Rachel commented that it is often not the case that autistic individuals are not capable, but that there are societal prejudices against autistic individuals, which can be influenced by cultural norms.


Cheryl reminded employers that interviews are an ineffective way of judging whether someone will be good at a job, and employers should avoid judging candidates based on their interview styles. For example, body language and eye contact can be hard for autistic individuals, but such factors may not be relevant to the job requirements, such as jobs that focus on handling phone calls.


Cheryl wondered if conducting job interviews via online messaging platforms like Slack would be more beneficial for autistic individuals, similar to what is done at the company Automattic. This is because online messaging job interviews rely on how people come across via words, thereby removing any bias associated with body language. Wesley also suggested that conducting job interviews online via video conferencing tools like Zoom from the comfort of the candidates' own homes might allow autistic individuals to feel more at ease, without having to abide to strict dress codes or stressful protocols. However, Siobhan expressed her personal preference for face-to-face job interviews, due to her struggles with completely understanding the situation and reading people via online mediums, as well as her anxiety over factors out of her control such as disrupted WiFi connections. This underscored how different neurodivergent individuals can have different opinions.


Siobhan encouraged employers to undergo a paradigm shift in their attitudes, confronting their own unconscious biases and accepting that different people have different skill sets. Employees do not necessarily have to be good at eye contact, shaking hands, emotional intelligence, and being a team player. Instead, employers should seek to find out from interviewees through conversations about what makes them great, getting interviewees to speak about themselves in a strengths-based way and seeing them for their strengths.


Siobhan elaborated on her favourite strengths-based conversation prompts which she uses when interacting with students and teachers at her education consultancy, Embrace Difference. These questions give an idea of what environments individuals draw energy from, as compared to what environments draw energy from them. Asking these questions is an easier strategy of getting a strengths-based profile from people than trying to talk about emotions directly, because even neurotypical individuals struggle more with the concept of emotions as compared to the concept of energy.

  • When was the last time you left a meeting or classroom and could not wait to tell someone about it?

  • What makes you get up in the morning?

  • What makes you feel excited?

  • What are your interests?

  • When was the last time you struggled to stay awake despite having sufficient sleep?

Providing a positive workplace environment for success


The panelists noted that some effort is already underway in Australia to help neurodiverse talent succeed in the workplace. I CAN Network has a mentoring programme for Australian teenagers preparing to enter the workforce. Australian Network on Disability has companies that try to certify themselves as disability-friendly workplaces. Some Australian companies help employers to examine their processes and become more inclusive, though there tends to be a focus on tech companies due to misconceptions about autistic individuals' abilities.


Wesley stated that Singapore's Autism Resource Centre Employability and Employment Centre has a relatively robust programme supporting autistic individuals in employment, somewhat similar to Autism Spectrum Australia (Aspect). Instead of immediately diving into job matching for new autistic clients, Autism Resource Centre recognises that different autistic individuals have different personalities and skill sets. Therefore, the programme begins with a two-way pre-assessment for Autism Resource Centre to assess whether they can help clients and for clients to assess whether Autism Resource Centre can help them. Each client is then given customised job training to build certain strengths and close certain weaknesses, with varying duration tailored to the client's pace of learning. This is followed by job placement and job support.


Wesley pointed out that every company is at a different level of readiness to take on neurodivergent employees. For example, the United Overseas Bank is long-term partner with the Autism Resource Centre, with around 30 autistic employees. Hence, accommodations are implemented at the organisation level, and the management has testified that the autistic employees add value to the company. On the other hand, excluding interns, Wesley is the first known autistic employee at his current workplace. After becoming more open about being autistic, he went for a job interview with the paperwork clearly stating his autism diagnosis and status as a client of Autism Resource Centre. The employer is relatively open to hiring autistic employees, as seen in the fact that the employer organised a job interview and follow-up chat already knowing he was autistic. Nonetheless, as his company is less equipped and only just starting out in their journey of embracing neurodiversity, accommodations are provided at the department or individual level. For instance, his neurotypical colleagues try to accommodate when they can, but are still learning how they can support him since it is their first time encountering an autistic employee. Despite the challenges, it is worth the journey in order to build an inclusive culture.


Siobhan advised employers to start with a conversation about how the company culture can meld with individualisation, taking all employees into account and supporting them in becoming more successful at the workplace. She shared that she personally excels in the workplace when employers see her for what she brings to the table even though there may be things she needs accommodations for. Rachel agreed that instead of singling out specific employees as burdensome employees who require special accommodations, the entire system should be redesigned to be universally accessible, so that it does not just help neurodivergent employees but also helps everyone in general.


Siobhan gave the example of how employers can organise inclusive meetings where employees are allowed to communicate in different ways, not just via speaking but also via computers. Cheryl and Wesley postulated that allowing employees to work remotely from home, such as during the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic, might be advantageous for both neurodivergent and neurotypical employees. This is because employees are able to work in environments that they are more physically comfortable in without sensory overload. They are also able to communicate via written words in online messaging platforms like Slack, which gives them more time to compose themselves, think through what they want to say, and make edits, instead of having to answer in the moment.


Enhancing communication between neurodivergents and neurotypicals


Wesley conceded that it is still a challenge to help autistic individuals thrive in the workplace, since the majority of employers value soft skills which can be a challenge for autistic individuals. One possible solution is to place autistic individuals in jobs that require technical or hard skills rather than soft skills. However, such a solution limits the type of jobs that autistic individuals can do. For example, autistic individuals may be restricted to being employed in IT or engineering fields, despite the fact that not all autistic individuals have a niche in these fields. In addition, all jobs require some level of human interaction.


Siobhan pointed out that employers can take the focus away from traditional soft skills when they take the focus away from people’s ego. Employers should allow employees to be who they are. She emphasised that most neurodivergent individuals tend to be more blunt, and prefer others to be upfront in their communication without using flowery language or politeness strategies. Neurotypical individuals should avoid taking things personally or immediately responding in a defensive manner, and should instead accept neurodivergent individuals' bluntness in good faith. For example, neurodivergent employees may assert that they are right and criticise a neurotypical colleague's poorly done job, but they may not be criticising the neurotypical colleague for being inherently bad. Shifting from a mindset of defensiveness to a mindset of compassion can make the relationship work better. Cheryl reminded employers to understand that autistic employees are not trying to be rude, and to unpack the good intentions behind autistic employees' words.


Wesley concurred that autistic individuals tend to simply say what they mean, such that there is no need to choose polite words or second guess what the other party means during conversations. On other other hand, neurotypical individuals speak with hidden meaning which autistic individuals have difficulty reading, and neurotypical individuals try to find hidden meaning in autistic individuals' words when none exists. Wesley lamented over negative experiences in which such differences in communication styles led to miscommunications, which then had to be resolved by an intermediary such as his job coach at the Autism Resource Centre. He explained that this is why autistic individuals enjoy talking among themselves as compared to talking to neurotypical individuals.


Wesley cited the ‘double empathy problem’, a term coined by Damian Milton that describes how autistic and neurotypical individuals cannot understand each other's perspectives as they are wired differently, which results in communication breaking down both ways. Unfortunately, autistic individuals are viewed as the cause of miscommunication as they are the minority. Wesley gave the analogy of social nuances being like a foreign language to autistic individuals, and blunt mannerisms being like a foreign language to neurotypical individuals. An English monolingual speaker would not understand French, yet it would also be hard for the French monolingual speaker to suddenly start speaking English. Likewise, even though autistic individuals may express their wish for neurotypical individuals to communicate more clearly and bluntly with them, neurotypical individuals are used to their own way of communicating. As such, the communication gap between autistic and neurotypical individuals can be hard to bridge.


Siobhan noted that clarity works for everyone. She stated her wish that everyone can get rid of subtext. For instance, she gave an anecdote of how her teacher explicitly stated that he could not deal with her energy level that day and suggested that she went to another classroom, a solution which worked out well for both the teacher and herself. She also expressed her preference for employers to speak to autistic employees directly instead of beating around the bush in an attempt to be polite. For example, she would rather the boss directly approach her to tell her what skills to work on, instead of calling a meeting and saying the entire group needs to work on those skills.


Cheryl agreed that speaking candidly can be better off for both neurodivergent and neurotypical individuals. In a way, bluntness can be kinder than making others guess what we mean, as it can be hard to figure what others are implying. For instance, she makes it a point to call out her own emotions instead of relying on others to pick up her body language and facial expressions, such as saying, 'I’m feeling a little frustrated about XX.' Cheryl and Rachel highlighted that Tony Attwood once suggested that autism may be the next stage of human evolution. Autistic individuals' way of thinking and communicating may be more efficient and can therefore be seen as an evolutionarily advantageous trait.


Nonetheless, Siobhan expressed that she disliked that quote due to its subtext of superiority. She prefers to treat everyone as equals, openly embracing differences in our own thoughts, strengths, and challenges. Instead of viewing certain individuals as being better than anyone else, she believes all of us need to work together as a neurodiverse community as everyone has value to contribute.


Wesley concluded the session with a quote by Colin Zimbleman, 'Autism... offers a chance for us to glimpse an awe-filled vision of the world that might otherwise pass us by.'

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